Crucible thoughts 02 – Bend over PI; I have a little surprise for you

I’ve had a substantial increase in visitors the last couple of days – the vast majority of them seemed to be searching on PI taxes.  That was odd, so I went off to visit my normal EVE blogs, and soon found the busy Ripard Teg had the explanation:

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2011/12/doubled.html

CCP confirmed it:

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4813

So – the taxes had more of an impact than expected.  How bad could it be?  So I checked the impact out against 1 of my 2 PI alts.  Before Crucible, the weekly cycle was roughly:

Planet 1 – Export P2 – 4K
Planet 2 – Export P2 – 6K
Planet 3 – Import P2 – 3K, Export P3 – 2K
Planet 4 – Import P2 – 3K, Export P3 – 2K
Planet 5 – Import P3 – 5K, Export P4 – 75K

100,000 ISK in Taxes, making around 18M Profit for an hours effort.

After Crucibles 5 to 10% tax increase:

Planet 1 – Export P2 – 400K
Planet 2 – Export P2 – 300K
Planet 3 – Import P2 – 500K, Export P3 1,000K
Planet 4 – Import P2 – 500K, Export P3 1,000K
Planet 5 – Import P3 – 500K, Export P4 2,200K

6,400,000 ISK in Taxes, making 11.6M Profit (at current prices) for an hours effort.

WTF!?  A cost factor increase of 64 times!?  To maintain the same profits I will have to increase my prices by 30%.  Given the lack of product on the market right now – it wouldn’t surprise me if I got it.  I wonder how smart and dynamic CCP’s calculations are for their taxes?  Are we going to end up chasing our tails – with a 30% increase in prices, resulting in a 30% increase in the amount of tax taken, which will mean we have to increases our prices again.  It will balance out in the end, but you get the idea.

Oh well, it makes the tax return on your own custom office much more plausible now.  Meanwhile I notice in Alliance the chat is about how many Dreads you need to remove a Custom’s Office in one siege cycle, as they experiment while removing (mindlessly?) those in a NPC 0.0 system. It is EVE – you have to adjust. I am just glad I don’t have a POS right now.

Edit –

I just eyeballed the costs in my initial post.  The EVE Wiki outlines what the tax costs are now based on:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

. Tax % is taken off the material’s taxable value. ◦ This value is set by CCP and is based off the market values in November 2011

. Import Tax is always half of export tax

. The taxable value are the same for all items in the same tier:

– Advanced Commodities: 1,350,000.00 ISK
– Specialized Commodities: 70,000.00 ISK
– Refined Commodities: 9,000.00 ISK
– Basic commodities: 500.00 ISK
– Planet Resources: 5,00 ISK

A fair bit of rage and cheering on the EVE forums.  Rage from people who think such a huge increase in tax is unjust, and will cause big impacts on the markets.  Cheering from people who think PI is too easy to earn ISK from, and others who think people will now flood low sec and null sec with their POCO’s.

3 thoughts on “Crucible thoughts 02 – Bend over PI; I have a little surprise for you

  1. In my view PI has always been too cheap on the market in price with next to nothing in taxes. I also always PI seemed undervalued also on the market. I do PI in highsec so I do feel the new increase in Taxes.

    To give this some thought when PI was first released I always wondered how all these customs station could just magically appear in every system all over New Eden including in every Nullsec and WH space which is suppose to be unknown space. Ok interbus was suppose to be the real original planet customs owner outside of highsec empire. So now it seem to be properly implemented as it should of been with planetary customs owner.

    Now what should have happened was that when PI was very first implemented what was implemented in the patch with Interbus/concord as planetary customs operator and the new Gantry structure should have all been done at that time with taxes implemented. It wasn’t. CCP got people to try out PI in a easier way with little to no taxes. Now the taxes are implemented people are crying about it.

    Enter Dust 514 which will be here soon. PI is used for allot of stuff now including POS refueling and all kind of structure making. If Dust 514 is to succeed in CCP’s eyes It can only make sense to me that planets have to be worth fighting over and PI prices also have to be worth much more than they are valued in the marketplace. And I guess this is where I see the taxes come in via Customs tax to or from planets. This should of been implemented first when PI came out, but it didn’t happen that way.

    Now that there are REAL TAXES in place for PI then people now need to consider what they really sell their PI Commodities for. If people sell their PI materials too cheap then it can really cut into your profits and that’s now something to really consider vs just throwing PI on the market at any price without much care since before the taxes didn’t matter. Now it does.

    If you increase the price you charge for PI then you can price to make up for the tax increase. But it now also becomes a mire competitive market as done people will want to accept lower profits just to sell their stuff first on market in the face of now real taxes on planetary exports on produced material.

    For me I just plan to increase the price of my goods, which is usually made into stargate structures or lower teir PI made to be used in items made for invention production.

    No one like taxes in space or real life but the way I see it is people gonna have to some what adapt with new strategies in the PI marketplace or get out of the market. It’s no longer easymoney street.

    • I liked the fact that PI had a low cost to enter for new players, was a somewhat passive income, and you could do it solo. These changes are certainly not the end of PI – they will still be profitable. Unfortunately you now need to use a spreadsheet to make sure you are not throwing away money on taxes, the costs will impact newer players the most, and the people who will do the best out of this are those in 0.0 with established territory. EVE is a sandpit – but CCP keeps on trying to force you to play the game their way…

  2. Forgot but only got to check briefly but to export a P4 off my planet coated 135K compared to 50K before the patch. Every P4 item I launched to customs was 135K for export taxes.

    So it seem what the teir values are that CCP used in November the it seem for a Teir 4 item then 10% of 1350000 would indeed give 135K for a P4 item.

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