Invention Investigations 03

The skills are slowly ticking over and the BPC coming in – so it is time to get a little more serious.

For T2 Invention attempts you need:

. The required skills

. A blueprint copy of the T1 item

. One specific data interface

. Two specific types of datacores

. Access to an invention slot

 

Optionally, you can also adjust your chances and the end BPC attributes with:

. A named T1 item that you are researching for

. A suitable decryptor

I also probably helps to assume things are not black and white – as Serpentine Logic’s comment to my last post suggested.

 

Skills

I will start with the T2 Small Tractor Beams.  I have the required skills now, but I was planning to get rank 4 for each of them.  I did not however use concrete facts behind that decision – it just seemed like a good idea.  After a Google search I found this useful Invention Chance calculator:

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php

Inventing T2 modules has a 40% base chance of success.  You need at least rank 1 in the appropriate encryption and datacore skills, so in reality you will have a 42% chance of success.  A quick check at rank 4 shows the chance increases to 48.3%.  That seems a worthwhile starting point.

If I was to spend 60 odd days to train up rank 5 in the three related skills, the chance of success would increase to 50.4%.  That’s nice, but not really worth chasing after given this is just a casual effort.  So I have about a fortnight of training before I will make my first invention attempt.

 

BPC

I have some 700 odd BPO in my library, so can source the majority of the BPC I might need myself.  Very few however are duplicates, so if I wanted to get into this in any sort of volume I would need to buy extra BPO to generate copies from.

I have generated 20 max run Small Tractor Beam BPC already, and just kicked off a second job to create 20 more of them.  That will be ready in a bit over a fortnight.  I can see some forward planning and patience will be required when using public slots of this.

My initial reading suggests that T2 Module BPC will have 1 to 10 runs – depending on how many runs were on the T1 Module BPC used.  I hope because I am using max run BPC that I will get 10 run copies upon a success.  I guess it could also mean I have a chance of 1 to 10 run – where as if I used 50% max run BPC I might only have a chance of 1 to 5 runs.  I guess I will find out soon.

 

Data Interface

I scourged the hodgepodge of stuff I have collected over the years, and found I already had 9 of the 12 invention data interfaces.  Of course these were mostly just the cheap ones.  For my experiment I was missing the Occult Ship Data Interface for the Amarr Assault Frigate.  You only need one of these – they are spat out immediately upon the start of the invention attempt, and can be re-used.  I didn’t bother doing much research, and just picking it up for 27M in Amarr.  I already had an Occult Data Interface for the T2 Tractor Beam and the Esoteric Ship Data Interface for the Caldari Interceptor.

 

Datacores

I need 1 High Energy Physics and 1 Laser Physics datacore for each invention attempt for the tractor beams.  I had a few in stock, but basically just picked up enough in Amarr to try 50 invention attempts for each of the 3 items I am looking at.  This cost 73M in Amarr on sell orders.  I could have saved 10% if I waited around with Buy orders, but I wasn’t interested in spending the time.  I split my purchases and cleared them out of the main Amarr station in two lots, to lessen the chance of being ganked.

 

Invention slot

There are plenty free at the moment, but I have noticed all being used up at other times.  I’ll just have to put up with whatever situation I find when I am ready.

 

The Optional

There are no named T1 versions of the three things I am looking to invent, so I don’t need to worry about those.

The Decryptors will be harder to work out if they are worth it or not.  I suspect not for modules.

In Amarr, Small Tractor Beams are selling for 1M, T2 Small tractor beams for 2.3M.  Given you will need a T1 version of the module to build the T2 that means very roughly you need to be able to invent and create the T2 module for under 1.3M.  I haven’t looked at the manufacturing costs – but that is the starting figure I will be keeping in the back of my mind.

Assuming I read correctly, a max run BPC should mean each success will create a 10 run T2 BPC with ME -4 and PE of -4.  Each attempt will cost around 450K in datacores.  Assuming near on 50% success over time, the basic cost of each success will be 900K, or 90K ISK per module.  If I get serious I can lower my datacore prices to buy prices, which would give roughly a 10% saving.  Maybe more if I shopped around.

I have five decryptor choices for the Tractor Beam invention.

The Cicular Logic reduces the success chance by 0.6 and ME by -2, for an additional 9 runs.  Or – given their current price, my rough calculations would be that it would increase the average invention cost per module from 90K to 820K, and drop ME to -6.  That doesn’t make sense.

The Sacred Manifesto increases the maximum run by 2 and the ME by 1.  Based on current costs, my rough calculation is that it would increase the average cost per module from 90K to 825K, and increase the ME to -3.  Given I need to invent and manufacture within 1.3M, you would discount this one as well.

The Formation Layout, Classic Doctrine and War Strategon all increase the average invention cost per module to well past 1.3M, so it doesn’t matter what ME improvements they provide, I can’t make a profit using them with Tractor Beams.

 

Summary

I hope to get around a 50% success rate for my Invention attempts on T2 Small Tractor Beams, at an average cost of 90K per unit on a 10 run BPC.  I won’t be using decryptors.   I have all datacores required for 50 attempts, and just need to wait a couple weeks for skills to run down and the extra BPC to be generated.

Given the initial review on decryptors, they don’t seem worth using for module invention.

 

Total spend on this experiment so far – skill books and invention supplies, is around 152M ISK.

Next steps –keep a focus on the skills required for the T2 Frigate invention, while starting to look at the manufacturing process and costs.  I assume I will have more skills to train, and probably more BPO to buy.

 

4 thoughts on “Invention Investigations 03

  1. Blueprint copying slots are notoriously hard to,find in empire space. Fortunately many module bpos are cheap enough to risk flying them into lowsec to install.

  2. Hmm, i’ll probably say as someone that has done allot of Inventions it will surely be An Adventure on the road to Inventions.
    There is allot of knowledge to gain going about the process of Invention R&D as well and that information knowledge is quite valuable also.

    Invention as a whole is a process, to me it is anyway. When I set out initially to do Invention I started by first with the skills to setup all my R&D Agents to eventually down the road supply the various Datacores I would eventually need the most. Then all the other various skills for Encryption Method and all the Adv Science skills.

    Being able to invent a variety of things was important to me when i started as well. When I started my very first Invention I had 4/4/4 (Encryption Method/Science Skill 1, Science Skill 2) skills at lvl 4 in all Sciences and initially 2 empire Encryption Methods Amarr & Caldari. Eventually not too long after had all 4/4/4 skills in all Encryption Methods and all Sciences. This made it easy to start invent anything at will of any the empire BP. I never started to do Invention at lvl 3 but you can still do it just with less success.

    In Highsec Invention slots are fairly available, its mostly on weekends they fill up for EVE weekend warriors. Have alternative stations you can use for backup close by. Copying slots in highsec is no where easy to find as readily. However with some amount of strategic planning, patience and a long term view you can get allot of Copying done in highsec. Yes it will be more easily convenient having a POS, but you also have the cost to operate that as well. With the amount of BPO assets you have and I had similar it was easy to find a nice quiet R&D Station that not too heavily used for Copying and utilize that one station exclusively by stacking the deck of all the available slots at that station. This takes a long term view and patience. But if you do it right over time you just about can own or have in use all the slots at that facility and keep them constantly rotated to keep them in use coping a different BPO. Cheap! Not as convenient as a POS but Cheap with good planning and one or 2 alts doing copying for you at the very same station to completely stack the deck in your favor at that station for Copying use. I got allot of BPC made this way at minimal cost. Or you can try low sec station as well.

    In time what you will learn for Invention and doing allot of it is you need a vast ready supply of BPC copies and need way more available copies than you can almost use at any one time. Because you will easily burn thru a 20 set copy in less than a few hrs that often take a few days at least to copy for most modules. Before I really started doing Invention back when I was still training skill I set forth my plan to systematically make copies of useful BPO’s at a copy facility way before I started to Invent. Thus I had hundred of BPC waiting to use when I actually started the process and I just kept the wheel rolling Copying at the facility non stop. At the moment i’m no longer really doing much Invention as of some weeks ago i cut back on doing so daily. I just do it here and there if I feel like inventing a nice mod from the collection of BPO copies. Have close to 1000 T2 BPC’s of all kind of stuff I can produce and over 3K BPC copies readily available of stuff I can readily Invent if needed but there is no need to Invent more T2 BPC when I also have way more BPC’s that I use to produce stuff that will last me throughout the rest of the year to try and consume.

    For Invention when it comes to modules/ammo you always make Max Run BPC for Invention always. Its either Max Run Copy or Single Copy or your screwed if anything else. For Ships Inventing you either make a Max Run Copy time permitting on the amount made or Single Copies BPC for Invention, also goes for Rig BPC’s as well.

    A Max Run BPC Invention for anything other than a ship will always yield a 10 Run T2 BPC. Results vary greatly is use anything less than a Max run BPC for Invention. When it comes to inventing Ships from BPC the rules are (many) and various whether its a Single Run, Max Run, Decryptor used as well. Lots of rules to Ship Invention process.

    When it comes to Inventing regular mods/ammo I can certainly say I’ve never used a Decryptor to do so. Decryptors are expensive and more useful when doing Ship Invention and it depends on what kind of ships your Inventing as well for the kind used.

    A high Meta module can help for module/ammo Invention if its rather Cheap and you have some cheap ones around from mission salvage or cheap to buy cheap to keep your Invention cost down. Nice to have some around from mission salvaging gathering dust to use.

    Already rambled enough, but Invention is quite a learning process and many many things you will learn or figure out or have to figure out as well. As well the T2 Production process after Invention is also a learning process to say the least. But its a adventure in Industrial R&D.

    • Excellent comment. I won’t go down the R&D Agent path with my Invention Toon, both as I couldn’t stand the grind, and because I want to keep her standings blank. My main and Alt 1 both have R&D agents, but I will probably just use buy orders.

      I plan to follow your path and have the skills to invent anything I might want.

      Good point about weekend warriors and science slot availability. I have been thinking I might try low sec for the cheaper stuff. I have also had a mate who quite effectively flooded a science station with his own jobs, and ended up having it almost for exclusive use. That worked well – but was damn annoying since I happened to have been using the station first..

      While I have all the POS gear, and a couple toons with suitable standings to anchor them, I probably won’t go down that path again with fuel costs being so high. I just dont want to get stuck feeling like I have to earn X amount of ISK to justify having it.

      Thanks for the overview of the impact from Max run BPC. Helps my initial costings. I hope not to get to the point of having a large volume of unused T2 BPC, given the cost in creating them.

      • Since your deciding to buy the Datacores then your going to need to keep your Datacores cost down and buy them as cheap as possible. If your using BO method then I would say the best place to do so is at that place when a person has to decide what to do with the ones they have after they have cashed in the RP. You can often get a good deal at such places or ones off the popular path as well.

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