I started on my PI Spreadsheet, to work out what is worth extracting and manufacturing.  There are a lot of combinations, so I only got to the end of the Processed Materials list before my eyes glazed over and I gave up on the effort for the day.  There were some strange figures in what I did get through.  Logic suggests that if you take raw materials and convert them into processed materials, the price of the end item should be more expensive than its ingredients.  Instead 5 of the 15 processed materials cost less to buy on the market than the sum price of their ingredients do.  Of the remaining 10 processed materials, the mark up was between 3 and 186% over the ingredient price.  Hopefully in the end this will highlight what areas of PI I should concentrate on.

I still have to finish off calculating the prices of the Refined Commodities, Specialized Commodities and Advanced Commodities.


I was away over the weekend, and with busy preparations beforehand, didn’t get a chance to do much in EVE.  My main can now sit in a Black Ops (Widow and Redeemer).  He still needs a bit of work to fly it proficiently though – over 50 days to get Black Ops IV, Jump Portal IV, and Cynosural Field Theory V.  Not sure I will cover all of that off immediately, given my Alt already has all those skills for the Sin.

My PI play continues.  I estimate I have earnt back about 10% of the ISK I have spent so far… The Advanced Industry Facility works – but is wasted due to the low yield rate of the second input.  I’ll have to find better planets, or import goods from elsewhere.  I took the advice from an earlier post, and started to use the Spaceport as the storage location.  That is a smarter approach.  Todays test was putting down 3 extractor control units, and seeing just how far away I could place them from the spaceport.

The resource allocations seem strange.  When I first scanned all the planets in my home system, they were bereft of almost any resources, aside two small hot spots which I placed my play extractors on.  Since then the resources on those two planets have started to increase, and there are now one or two other viable areas to place head units.

Last of all I noticed that one of the (many) recent Titan losses was one I was familiar with.  It was sad to see the death of the very first Titan for an old Alliance of mine.


I grabbed half a dozen of my BPO’s for smaller ships that I knew would be half popular, and worked out at current mineral prices what I could make them for.  I then looked at what they were going for on the market.  A number of the higher volume ships were selling for just under my build price – with one example of a bulk sell order of rifters (deep in low sec) selling for 20% under what I could make them for.  I expect it I take the time, I might find a few good examples where it is cheaper to buy items well under build price, and refine them for the minerals.

In the end I found a couple ships with profits of 15 to 40% on good turn over, and kicked off some manufacturing jobs.  I won’t be logging in enough to play the 0.01ISK wars, so I am selling them away from any major trading hub, and somewhat close to a school system.  I put up some buy orders for the same ships at around 80% of the build price, a tactic that tends to work ok.  I limited this to 4 jumps – to keep collections easier, keep them out of low sec, and to lessen the chance of 0.01K ISK wars with the other buy orders (which were currently priced at around 40% of build price, but were region wide).

If I can balance the stocks and effort required, this approach can add another small income stream which adds up over time.  I just have to be careful not to get burnt out trying to maintain too many product lines, as I have done in the past.

I also revisited my PI planets, and on one introduced a new Extractor and Basic industry Facility, to create a different Processed Material.  I then setup an Advanced Industry Facility to combine the two Processed Materials into a Refined Commodity.  Again there was no great thought placed into what I was making, I was just using what was available to me to.  Next I will put down a High Tech Production Plant (one is a Barren Planet), and after buying some extra Refined Commodities, build myself some Specialized Commodities.  I’ll have to go through the process of getting goods from the Customs Office down to the planet.  If that all works out ok, I’ll have to see if any of this is worth doing from an ISK point of view, and if not, is it possibly worthwhile just to stock pile POS fuel.  I also have to remember I have multiple characters who can do PI, which adds options in how to make the process worthwhile.


So I revisited my PI installations.  The first day was just getting the basic process and connections working.  Very simplistically…

. Scanned the planets in my home system for pockets of resources with a reasonable density

. Put down a Command Center near one of the pockets

. Put down an Extractor Head, Silo, Basic Industrial Facility, and another Silo

. Created links from Extractor > Silo > Industrial Facility > Silo > Command Center

. Used the Survey option to place Extractor Heads in the resource pocket, and selected an extraction program to run

. Routed the raw material to the Silo, then Industrial Facility

. Selected a program for the Industrial Faclity, and routed the output to the second Silo

. During this process I had to upgrade the command centre and communication links a couple of times to fit the modules or to get the routes working.

. I also added a Spaceport.  Not because I needed to, just because I wanted to.

. I think I spent around 7 Mil in total for both installations, although that included a couple items subsequently removed.

I ignored the worth of what I was extracting – I just wanted to get something working.  Because the Industry module could not keep up with the extraction, for the first run I selected a program which would just fill the first Silo.  That could hold 500,000 units, which the Industry module would then take almost 7 days to process.  (I never did check if the Industry Module could be upgraded, I might have to go check.)

On the second day I returned to find myself with some 900m2 of basic raw materials, which a quick check showed might have been worth around 50K in total.  I moved them from the end silo to the spaceport, and shipped them to the Customs Office.   I then updated one of my installations to add another extraction head > silo > basic industry module chain, this time setting a slower extraction rate so that it would run for almost 4 days – not filling the Silo, but easily keeping in front of the Industry Module.

Looking at that picture I realised I should routed the two Industry Module outputs to the same Silo.  Oh well – I don’t consider this an ISK investment at the moment.  I will at a later stage look at all the options I have to create higher tier or more expensive goods on those planets, but at the moment I assume I will lose the ISK I am spending.  This is just playing around.  I suspect however I will have to add a PI tab to my EVE Online Spreadsheet.


I was running a mission yesterday (a relatively rare event) when I was surprised to see a mate log in for the first time 5 months or so.  Turned out CCP had let him back into the game for 5 days to check out the new character creation process.  He was impressed.  He then collected some data cores, consolidated some of his assets, and logged.  I asked if he had any plans with his short time in EVE, and he said no.  Without some goal to motivate him, I don’t expect to see him back.

I’ve spent a couple hours on my Alt looking at PI today.  There are 9 planets in my home system.  Not one had any player infrastructure on it – which is a sign of just how limited the resources on them were.  I set up two embarrassingly inept and inefficient process chains on a couple planets just to check out the differences between the old and new versions of the interface.  It seemed slightly more intuitive, and required slightly less clicking.

I have some 700 odd researched BPO sitting on my main, not being used. I might move them to my industry / hauler alt, and start building stuff to amuse myself.  I haven’t gotten into invention like I had planned.  I might look at that also.

In the Blog World

There was a couple interesting Blog posts in my inbox today.

Bphelmet remarked on his lack of enthusiasm for the CSM. [ Link ] As I said in the comments, I don’t believe the CSM has any real power.  It is a mix of public relations exercise and a way of focusing player feedback.  However, while I don’t hold high expectations for it, I can see benefits in it.  There is an active CSM forum, and even a sense of community surrounding it, and it gets players thinking about and discussing the mechanics of the game.  It may even add a level of mystique for players outside the game looking in, and for the people involved, their visits to CCP headquarters would truly be interesting.  If we are lucky, they might even bring in an idea or two, or squash one or two others, that over all make the game better.

DerMuffin spent some time looking at the Hulkageddon killboards at why so many miners still lost their ships in 0.9 space.  [ Link ] As I remarked in an earlier post, you can’t just wander around in EVE totally ignoring what is going on around you.  If you wanted to mine during Hulkageddon you should have downgraded to a Covertor or Retriever, or made an effort to forego your yield a little, and fit a high resists tank to your Hulk.  It wouldn’t have helped against a squad of destroyers, but might have saved yourself against the solo gankers.  It was an interesting post.

Training Rank V

Almost 2 months into the blog, and I am still getting used to WordPress and its quirks.  I assume those people subscribed to the blog only get notified of new posts, and not when I update something 5 times because of foolish spelling mistakes.  I also have a dozen Pingback’s to approve for my EVE Banter post, which I am not sure how to handle.  (I don’t really want long lists of pingback comments against a post, particularly as they were already linked to by the post itself.)  Currently at 33 posts and 15 images, which seems an ok start.

My alt will finish off Kinetic Armor Compensation V shortly, the end of a 28 day queue to get those skills from rank IV to V.  Intrigued to see the impact this might
have on some of his fittings, I brought up his carrier in EFT and adjusted his skills to the new levels.  The result was underwhelming.

The benefit from many skills in EVE at level V can be extremely small for the time taken to train it.  My Alt is at the point where there really isn’t much of pressing need for him to skill up in, so I am just going back and covering off some of these, almost trophy type skills, where the benefit doesn’t really justify the time taken, but they sound nice.

His next 21 days will be spent getting Rapid Firing and Surgical Strike from IV to V.  Probably worthwhile in an incremental way, but certainly nothing you would recommend a 3 month old pilot to embark upon.

I generally get the majority of my skills to rank IV.  If you have the skill, it just seems logical to make sure you can use it properly.  (And many T2 fittings require it anyway.)  The exceptions so far have been for the Large Weapon Specializations.  I normally sit those at rank III.  Each rank gives a 2% bonus to damage to weapons needing the skill.  Rank 4 costs my alt a little over 5 days.  5 days training for 2% damage on three large T2 guns.  I expect the only reason I’ll train that is if it becomes a requirement for T2 capital turrets, assuming they get into the game at some point down the track.